D.C. Vape tax will cause B&M shops to close their doors

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  • Any study done that denounces vaping, no matter who in the world commissioned it will be used by lawmakers to reduce our rights. Every time a jurisdiction anywhere in the world imposes more restrictions or taxes on vaping, those are used by the next jurisdiction as a legal precedent to justify even more draconian restrictions or taxation. This is why vapers should write to the lawmakers in that jurisdiction, even if they don't live there. All vapers worldwide should be able to direct lawmakers to the studies that promote the value of vaping in smoking cessation, and those that debunk the theories of 'second hand vape' damage, and the 'path to smoking' myth. Only e-mail from masses of vapers can turn the tide which is running against us.
  • At the risk of sounding all "Sons of Liberty" I have to say...the Boston Tea Party was the result of a 3% tax on tea. 3%!!! Granted there were other contributing factors, but still 3% < 67%. As you said Old_Salt, the shops will relocate or shutter their doors. The consumer will either travel to buy their vape gear or simply order online. So in the end it is the citizen who wants to be tobacco free and the mom and pop business owners who suffer and it doesn't cost any skin off the backs of our esteemed (condescension there) politicians. Such a sad state of affairs that our elected officials think us so unaware that we wouldn't notice this chicanery. Despicable!

  • edited October 2015 Vote Up1Vote Down
    @ElGribo I hate to burst your bubble. You can still grow tobacco for personal use here in Canada. Curing and turning it into cigarettes is a real pain. I wonder how hard it is to extract the nicotine from the plants.

    My rock group needs a new fog machine. I think I'll order one made of 1000 individually loaded atomizing tanks . Each atomizing tank will have a coil between 0.1Ω and 2Ω and may be one of several shapes. I'll send the core back for refurbishement (sans individually loaded tanks) >:)

    Laser light shows and spotlights caressing my axe and I howling with half-naked groupies dancing to the beat on a booming wood floor, beats your gloomy clearings, half-rotten cabins with tin roofs, greasy unshaven woodsmen with big big guns, and saliva spitting überdogs.

    Get with the times man ;)
  • They are trying to do that here in Washington State is also. I think it’s because the states are losing money and the big tobacco companies are too and they are scared because more people are going to vape than cigarettes.
  • Vaping is being attacked in every state on two fronts. Big Tobacco is lobbying to keep tobacco sales the way they are now, and their methods are rather insidious. Kickbacks to politicians ensure that vaping laws are tilted in their favor. On the second front are organizations committed to "clean air", and they are pushing harsher laws for tobacco use on a local level. Unfortunately, most of them are lumping vaping in with tobacco, despite the hard evidence that vaping is virtually safe, and is likely the most effective way available to quit smoking.

    The problem is that vapers are, for the most part, unorganized. The best thing we can do is to get involved with groups like CASAA (http://casaa.org/) and fight the good fight.

    Good luck everyone and happy vaping!
  • edited September 2015 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Did anyone notice that EVERYTHING a vape shop sells will be subject to the surtax. This tax is even more draconian than taxes on tobacco products. Lighters, cigarette cases, pipes, and matches aren't subject to the tobacco taxes. MODs, tanks, coils, drip tips, DIY supplies, and even batteries that can be used for many other purposes will be subject to the same taxes as liquids.

    The district expects to collect over $400,000 to 'help the homeless' from vape shops. I think every vape shop in DC will move a few kilometers just outside the DC border. Their customers will either follow, find another vape shop outside of DC, or shop the 'net. No one with any sense at all will pay these taxes. The district will lose money setting up to collect the taxes, instead of collecting it. They'll also lose the businesses and the associated jobs. Well done Washington DC!
  • I am sorry to hear this news.67% excise tax on vape products,it is really so terrible. 8-X
  • The tax is an attempt to look good to the voters. Helping the homeless is a popular cause that no one wants to pay extra taxes for. What the politicians have done is angered a few people, but not enough to damage their chance of re-election. To the vast majority they can say they have done something positive, without it costing them anything. When the vape shops close or move, and it ends up costing the district they'll say "It's not my fault. We tried. Blame the vapers for refusing to pay for it." The only ones who will win are the politicians who can now grab some free time on the news.
  • Bad tax laws lead to tax evasion, criminality (drugs, alcohol ... you name it). And the more I monitor the attempts to impose taxes on virtually anything you may think of (hell, those attempts are not even covert anymore) including e.g. "unhealthy food" the more I am sure that tax evasion might not be legal but sure as hell is legitimate. And if you realize where your taxes are being spent....this is sick.
  • If they actually sorted out the tax law properly I bet they could house every homeless person in the states from a couple of big internet companies alone. Any law that allows apple to pull their stunt being headquartered in California (where tax is paid where you're incorporated) and incorporated in Ireland (where tax is paid where you're headquartered) - known as the "double Irish" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement, resulting in them not paying any tax on their offshore billions; is just fundamentally wrong...

    Even though the loophole is allegedly closed (http://www.cnbc.com/2014/11/04/), "Existing companies will have a transition period until 2020 and Kenny said the development of an information "patent box" or corporate tax subsidy arrangement is in the pipeline." - they have a few more years to figure out the next tax scam...

    In the meantime the 67% is a hugely punitive tax to be trying to impose - I'm sorry to hear you'll be hit that way over there :(
  • D.C. is kind of a special case, as they have virtually no representation as I understand it. Citizens of D.C. seem to not have the same rights as residents of any actual state. Still, these taxes are ridiculous and, as @Viruk said, punitive. Vapers will lose all rights and priviledges if we do not organize and fight. That is the sad truth.
  • I order my juice and supplies on the Internet. Wonder if that will make a difference.
  • edited October 2015 Vote Up0Vote Down
    @Joel360 It can.

    About five years ago Health Canada clamped down on nicotine as sold in e-liquids. It became problematic getting it across the border. Our customs and excise agency liberally interpreted Health Canada's edicts and also banned e-cigarettes, atomizers, and other paraphernalia associated with them. Many foreign companies that sold vaping supplies refused to ship to Canadian addresses. Those that did demanded payment whether or not the vaping supplies made it across our border. Only one company had a Canadian presence and was able to somehow circumvent the restrictions reliably shipping to Canadian addresses from within Canada. At the time I bought a four year supply of vaping materials just in case Health Canada and our border agency shut them down. That supply ran out earlier this year. I did not keep up with the vaping world during that time period, and thought nothing more of it.

    With only about a three month supply of vaping materials left, I started investigating how to get more. Four years ago it was limited to pen-style devices, cigalikes, and mechMODs. I was very surprised to find local B&Ms dedicated to vaping. I was pleasantly surprised to find a plethora of new devices available. The flavours available astounded me. I did my research, and found the Nautilus / Nautilus Mini were the top rated tanks on the market. Since then, I've bought Atlantis V2s, found they don't match my vaping style and settled into the Triton.

    The pendulum had swung the other way in the four years I didn't keep up with the vaping community. It has now started swinging back the other way. Two of our provinces, including the one where I live, have passed laws limiting vaping, and B&Ms. It's still easy to get supplies locally, but I see this changing. More restrictions are coming, and they will be applied at the national level. Until then, I'll take advantage of the freedoms of vaping. Just before our national borders close once again, I'll order a long-term vaping supply. This is one of the major reasons I develop my own flavours. 100mg/ml liquids don't take much room. Neither do the concentrated flavours. VG and PG will always be readily available, and are easy to make if it becomes necessary. Tanks with rebuildable atomizers like the Triton will take me through the next dry spell.

    So yes, in the short term you'll be able to order through the 'net. You'll be able to get supplies until national borders close to vaping materials. Once that happens, getting supplies will once again be problematic. Foreign companies will need to be plentiful, and sell vaping supplies as a sideline to avoid having their shipments into your country being targeted by customs and excise agencies. Think about it now, and develop your own plan so you are ready when, not if, it happens.
  • @Old_Salt you have a very good point. Even with all the equipment and juice readily available locally, I prefer to rebuild coils and DIY my own juice. I save tons of money in the long run, but still try to get out to B&Ms on occasion just to support the business. I am stockpiling several bottles of nicotine in the freezer just in case, and gallon jugs of VG are cheap. I know you can also buy VG at herbal shops, so I'm not too worried about that. I am also trying to stock up on various wires and cotton. My real worry is stock replacement coils for my favorite Nautilus tanks. Several years' worth of coils can be an investment. I am also waiting to hear the next announcement from Aspire, since there was a thread asking about the changes we would like to see with the Nautilus. ;)

    OK I am rambling on, but the point is that we all need to be active in protecting our rights locally. We also should be thinking about the "Vaping Apocalypse" and preparing our stockpiles when we see impending legislation that might jeopardize our way of life. We have an uphill battle to fight, and most of the public are not sympathetic to our plight. So, hope for the best but plan for the worst. :)>-
  • @Old_Salt It sounds like we may have to run some goods across Lake Erie to ya "ala prohibition style smuggling"! Seriously, if it gets that bad, northern Wisconsin has some vape shops too. Going across the Ambassador bridge to Canada......"Do you have anything to declare?" Umm...aside from the 3 gallons of ejuice in the trunk disguised as gallon jugs of wine, ummm...no. B-)
  • @charlzrocks More daring couriers may transport the juice disguised as bottles of Old Smuggler ;-)
  • @ElGribo Hmmmm.....wouldn't get far......I believe that the authorities will come upon large vats of home made bobas bounty in the woods of Canada and then be dispatched by the locals brewing it there! =D>
  • @charlzrocks Will there be all those other cool things like gloomy clearings, half-rotten cabins with tin roofs, greasy unshaven woodsmen with big big guns, saliva spitting überdogs and black-clad antivape agency thugs trapped in nets and/or impaled on thick spikes??? Oh yes, please, please!!!!! [-O<
  • edited October 2015 Vote Up0Vote Down
    @Old_Salt Although I am more of a traditional man in terms of what kind of scene setup makes a good traditional smuggler'n'outlaw flick, I have nothing against novelties such as rock music (still, a bit raw and hillbilly kind of thing if possible) and got absolutely no problem with groupies whatsoever as long as there is still a bit of that part you omitted because of all the kids (and NSA robots) who read this forum....you know, that part with government thugs and homemade wooden spikes. That, and the lasers, would make your scene taste just a lil bit Tarantinoish, which imho never hurts :-)

    P.S. Thanks, man, you made my day :D
  • There are also dozens of B&M shops in the Minneapolis area, if you are so inclined to visit. Hop in the General Lee and jump over some trucks filled with hay... LOL ;)
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