SS 316L TC Coils

Ok I am creating this Discussion for SS 316L since in the SS 316L TC Coil topic keeps getting posts voted down. Considering that there are a lot of devices that support Stainless Steel coils in Temperature Control mode, none of the admins have really said anything about talking about other mods. Since this was an issue, I have created this in the proper section for general discussions on E-Cigs. With that said, lets begin.

When doing any type of Stainless Steel Temp Control, you have to take a few things into consideration. First off, what device are you using and how does it handle temp control. I have found that on devices that only control the temperature and not the wattage will have problems with SS coils. For instance, with the X Cube 2, it you set the temperature of the mods and it automatically give the Wattage. Since you can vape SS 316L coils in regular wattage mode, you must make sure that the coils support the wattage your device is giving you in TC mode. Also, you must make sure that the device is set up for the type of Stainless Steel coils you are using. There are many types of SS wire out there. SS 316 has a different Temperature of Coefficient than SS 316L. If your mod says SS 316, check and make sure whether or not it is SS 316 or SS 316L.

There are certain mods that will allow you to adjust the Temperature of Coefficient for the mod. This is a great place to start as some mods may not have the proper ToC for the type of wire you are using. A great place to check is Steam-Engine. They have a section dedicated to getting all the info you need for different types of wire. Just make sure you select the correct wire and the info you need.

Lastly, just play around with it and see what is working for you. As you can use SS 316L wire for TC, it has a very narrow curve of resistance change compared to Ni200 or Ti 1. Because of this it tends to be less accurate than those types of wire, but it can be used. Also because of this narrow curve of resistance, it can be used just like Kanthal safely in regular Wattage mode.

Please feel free to discuss this and any mods and experiences you have had with with SS temp control. Hopefully we can all help to get this down and actually get it to work.
Southy321
Comments
  • 18 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • I've used the aspire 0.3 ohm SS 316L coils in temp control mode on a DNA200 device but the vape was a bit lacking. I stick to the SS Triton coils in power mode as the vape is more satisfying and I haven't had any problems at all with burning those coils.

    I don't have screenshots at the minute, but I'll try to get some of the graphs of temperature/wattage from the EScribe software to show what I mean by it "bouncing around" (especially now we have a thread just for this!)

    Here is a straight copy & paste of the relevant sections of two posts I placed in the other thread:
    With regard to SS316L coils in temp control, I could get it to work on the DNA 200 with the Triton 0.3 ohm SS coils but the vape was quite weak. Vaping the Triton SS coils in power mode is just so good I didn't think it was worth the anemic vape I was getting in TC mode. SS has a very flat temp curve so the reported temperature "bounces" around a lot - I'd hope the extra material in a Clapton coil might stabilise the temperature a bit but I'd be interested in your results

    I tried it with the TCR curve from steam-engine.org and the vape just seemed to be lacking. I have read that people have had more luck with SS316L using a constant value of 0.001 instead of the curve (apparently the 0.00092 was too many decimal places - certainly in one of the earlier firmware versions); I haven't tried that yet but I do like the SS coils in wattage mode - they last long enough, give good flavour and don't cause any problems :)

    In addition to the previous posts, I have read that SS works better in temp control at slightly higher resistances - I'm currently interested in the effect of a Clapton SS coil compared to the non-Clapton ones I've already tried.
    midnightwolf
  • One of the problems I have herd with premade coils in tanks is that a lot of them use a non-resistance wire to the coil and it changes the ToC. I have herd people having problems with the Crown SS coils because of the ToC not being spot on. I want to try the TFV4 SS coils since that is what the X Cube 2 is configured for in SS TC mode. The only problem is that my Cleito blows the TFV4 out of the water and I hardly ever use it now. :))
  • Picked this up today for my Velocity to try and get SS Tc working. Will post back results later.
    20160416_141825.jpg
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  • nice - I have heard of people having more success with RDAs/RTAs using stainless, but I'm not sure which coils they've actually tested that against.
    I've taken a few screenshots of the temperature mode today after one shot in wattage mode for reference. You can see the resistance has risen when using it in wattage mode - I did allow it to cool before testing again in temp mode.

    Then I tested with my previously saved SS profile which was only at 40w.

    I then edited the profile to use 50w (as I was using 50w in wattage mode) and did a few tests at that...
    0.3 SS Triton 50w power mode.PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 40w TC.PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC.PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC (2).PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC (3).PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC (4).PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC (5).PNG
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    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC (6).PNG
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  • Most of the time I'm firing, the coil is still getting up to temperature - I may do some more tests with higher pre-heat and punch settings to get it up to temperature faster.
  • I didn't bother waiting - I tested with higher pre-heat of 60w with a pre-heat punch of 5.9. It gets to temperature quicker, but it feels like it backs the power off too much.

    Also, make sure you have your profile set right and change the default pre-heat in EScribe down. On the firmware from late last year, the pre-heat power was set to 200w; if you have the material set to nickel by mistake and the default pre-heat power you'll literally glow your coil and burn all your wick in less than a second (I found that out the hard way!) - now one of my profiles has temp control turned off and the pre-heat power is reduced super low to avoid making that mistake again.

    Anyway - here is the graph for the latest test...
    0.3 SS Triton 50w TC 60w pre-heat (1).PNG
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  • It seems as if the MOD designers / programmers don't understand some of the fundamentals of -ve feedback control loops. These systems are digital, and control of amplification and the amount of feedback can easily be put into the hands of the user.

    In a TC MOD, the set point is determined by the desired temperature, and material characteristics input by the user, and the room temperature resistance of the coil as measured by the MOD.

    The amount of negative feedback, and amplification of the resultant control signal would then be able to get rid of the ringing seen in your graphs. This needs to be set on a per material basis by the MOD's manufacturer, or put into the hands of the user.

  • I think its a factor of the low temperature coefficient of SS 316L. Its more stable with titanium which has a higher TCR. The attached graphs are for a 0.1ohm titanium dual coil setup.
    0.1 titanium 1.PNG
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    0.1 titanium 2.PNG
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  • this setup is a bit lively - it does settle down as the coils dry up just before needing to be re-juiced...
    0.1 titanium 3.PNG
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  • @Viruk Wow these are a lot of graphs to go over. Will have to when I get home on my laptop. Have you updated to the latest beta firmware? It Ni200, Ti and SS 316L as selectable TC modes now.
  • I will admit that I am stealing this off an article but it has a lot of ToC values. It shows how little we really know about ToC of wires since some of them have multiple values.


    Nickel DH: "0704" [0.007036]
    Ni200: "0600" [0.00600] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    Ni200: "0620" [0.00620] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    Nifethal 70 (Alloy120): "0525" [0.00525]
    NiFe30 (StealthVape): "0500" [0.00500]
    Tungsten: "0450" [0.00450]
    Nifethal 52 (Alloy52): "0404" [0.004036]
    NiFe (Reactor Wire): "0400" [0.00400]
    TitaniumGrade1: "0366" [0.00366] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    TitaniumGrade1: "0350" [0.00350] (According to the SX Mini Manual, @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    TitaniumGrade2: "0353" [0.003525]
    NiFe30 (Resistherm): "0320" [0.00320]
    SS410: "0155" [0.00155]
    SS430: "0138" [0.00138]
    Invar 36 / Nilo 36 / Pernifer 36: "0112" [0.001116]
    SS304: "0102" [0.001016] (According to Steam-Engine)
    SS304: "0105" [0.00105] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    SS316L: "0088" [0.000879] (According to Steam-Engine)
    SS316L: "0092" [0.00092] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    SS316: "0088" [0.00088] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    SS316: "0092" [0.000915] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    SS317L: "0094" [0.00094] (According to Steam-Engine.org)
    SS317L: "0088" [0.00088] (According to @DJLsbVapes and other various sources)
    SS317: "0088" [0.000875] (According to @DJLsbVapes)
  • @midnightwolf Yes I'm on the latest beta firmware. SS316 and titanium1 are selectable, I'll attach a screenshot of the relevant place in EScribe.

    I'd already added two custom materials; SS316L from steam-engine.org and SSV Titanium wire from the sweet spot vapors website - even though the new options exist in the software you have to select them to add them to the device.

    Once you've made them available to the device you can select a material for one of your profiles in the drop down - highlighted in the second screenshot attached.

    The third screenshot shows the profile I've used for the Triton SS coils - I've only tested with the 0.3ohm coil, but I'm wondering if I'd get more stability from the 0.4ohm coils - although the wattage rating is lower for that and the profile would potentially need to be adjusted accordingly.

    With regard to your other post, the values you've listed appear to be a single value for a given material; many (most?) materials change their resistance with temperature, so there is more of a curve (although they all seem relatively flat curves!). Think of the values above as a single point providing an approximation, but if you use a csv, it indicates the change in that value at different defined temperatures. I've added a screenshot of that as well for ni200 - my description isn't great but hopefully it makes sense (or points you in the right direction!). Open up that section of EScribe and look at the values displayed as you highlight points on the lines with your cursor. That would likely explain the different values used as people experiment with different values that work best for them.

    Most mods just use that single figure approximation, but the DNA chip can handle more resolution of that resistance change with temperature.
    materials tab.PNG
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    general tab - profile.PNG
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    Triton SS coil profile.PNG
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    ni200 tcr.PNG
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  • @midnightwolf did you have any luck trying this? Did my last post make sense?
  • @Viruk Yes. I got a dual coil 24g at 0.21 in my Velocity clone(like my clapton build in my authentic too much to use it, lol). I used the Steam Engine SS 316 L profile and it is working quite well. Have the Preheat set to 100W at I think .5s. I am using it at 80W and about 450W to 500W. It works quite well. The cotton does not get dry but when the deck is dry, I start to get the temperature protection. I have tried it on the proper ToC settings on my X Cube 2 but it does not work as well. The SS profile that is included for the DNA 200's current firmware is for SS 316 and not SS 316L.
  • 'Temperature Protected' is not an error message. My DNA shows it with every puff. It actually means that you have reached the vaping temperature that has been set on the device. When the coil reaches this point, the DNA enters TC mode and the power is manipulated to maintain the temperature.

    I changed this message to "Temperature at Setpoint' reflecting this.
  • Ya I know that. The best thing is I can throw the RDA on my mech and not worry. Vaping on my Manhattan V2 with the SS 316L as we speak.
  • hello i'm dresta from bali.
    i'm beginner in TC mod actually.
    i have SX mini MLclass and hurricane v1.3.
    i used SS 316L 8wrap 0.25mm
    TCR 0.00092,
    i got 0.30ohm.

    is there anyone help me give the coil and setting for me.

    thanks you.
  • hi,
    ss 304 coils
    ss 304l coil
    ss 316 coil
    ss 316l coils
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